Saturday, June 10, 2006

miffed about abortions

Max is angry at the angry anonymous commenter(s) to my most recent post. I'm having a heavy puke day, so I can't get up the energy to be mad. Mostly, it's always exciting to find that anyone not related to me is even reading the blog anymore. Not like we are responsible, mature bloggers who get replacements to blog for us when we can't do it, or have, like, paypal things set up. We don't even have google ads or an Amazon partnership set up. sure, we've toyed with trying to acquire fame and fortune as bloggers, and we've had our moments, but technorati tells me this ain't one of them.

I'm nobody, anonymous. Who are you? are you nobody too?

[oops, while I was helping our son do some coloring, my anonymous commenter outed himself. Hello Miff, I'm flattered you looked us up again! We actually had figured out you were you, but no one likes to be outed by others, so we treated you as anonymous until you suggested otherwise]

It does not bother me, then, to admit that my most recent posting was intemperate. I wasn't trying to convince anyone of anything. In case you missed the last three months of my life, I've had a pisser of a pregnancy. I've been sicker than a dog. We've had to hire babysitters to watch our son, because I've been too busy puking to do so. I can't cook, so our food bill is out-of-control. If I had a paying job, I wouldn't have been able to do it. We suck up the expense, and I suck up the hideousness, of my pregnancy because we really, really want another kid. Hell, I got pregnant even though my last pregnancy caused me to have a nervous breakdown.

So I'll admit it would have been a bit over-the-top to accuse every single person who is not pro-choice with hating women. People's ideas of right and wrong are based on all kinds of motivations, values, and histories. Though, in point of fact, I don't seem to have accused every single person who is not pro-choice with hating women. What I actually said was "the assholes running our country hate women, and think it's okay to enslave us." I also called these same people "crazy will-to-power fucks".

If you or anyone you know is one of the people running the country (and by this, I mean, a member of the Bush administration), then yeah, I'm calling you an asshole, a woman-hater, and a crazy will-to-power fuck, and I stand by those statements. I'm willing to argue with reasonable people, but I'm not alone in believing that this administration sucks ass, so I hardly think that I'm advancing a radical left-wing nutty position by stating that.

I also won't back down on my contention that pregnancy is a type of slavery. And to support the abolition of abortion, whatever your reasons, is to support a policy that enslaves women. The choices you and your loved ones make to deal with pregnancies are entirely your own. The day you come to me and tell me I must endure 9 months of enslavement I do not want, because you value a potential life I carry more than you value my freedom, well, that's the day you've said that my slavery is A-OK with you. Why is the presumed father not sentenced to such slavery? Well, because he's not a woman, and he's not pregnant.

The way I see it, my posting, intemperate as it was, still left a lot of openings for someone to argue that I am full of crap, none of which require that I be dismissed as a crazy left-wing nut. For your convenience, I'll list some below:

1) You could argue that pregnancy is not, in fact, a form of slavery. I'm not at all just blowing off steam when I say I think it is. That is my deeply held belief based on my experiences of 1.4 pregnancies (the .4, by the way, still ongoing) and my observation of pregnancies in other women. But you could certainly argue otherwise.

2) You could argue that even if pregnancy is a form of slavery, the value of an embryo or fetus trumps the rights of humans not to be enslaved. I don't happen to think it does, but, again, people disagree about stuff like that.

3) You could grant that pregnancy is a form of slavery but that women who get pregnant deserve to be enslaved for their stupidity or irresponsibility in getting pregnant in the first place. Pregnancy as a form of punishment. When people ask why they should be sympathetic to irresponsible women who get themselves knocked up, I presume that is their implicit argument. If you make this argument and want to be fair about the punishment, though, you should be prepared to sentence men who knock up women with 9 months of slavery as well. If you aren't, well then, yeah, I'll call you a woman-hater: you think women should be punished for a crime that men should not be punished for.

I'm sure there are plenty of other attacks you could make on my position, but hey, why should I do all the work? I've got a kid to entertain, and more puking to do. And man, will it ever, ever, ever stop raining?

7 Comments:

At 6:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Amy. I wasn't aware of your harsh pregnancy, and I hope it goes well (the fact that I vehemenly disagree with your political stances notwithstanding).

I didn't bother to say who I was because I didn't think it mattered, until, of course, Max questioned my motives. How do I feel about abortion? As I said, I believe it should be legal. No, you're correct that, literally speaking, you didn't "accuse[] every single person who is not pro-choice with hating women," but let's be honest, that was the implication.

Am I running the country? Nope, but you believe those people who are running the country are (controlling for plurals) "an asshole, a woman-hater, and a crazy will-to-power fuck."

Your statements about pregnancy are, to be blunt, silly. You question why "the presumed father [is] not sentenced to such slavery? Well, because he's not a woman, and he's not pregnant."

Yep, the biological fact is that he is NOT a woman, and therefore, yes, he's not pregnant. Did I miss something here? If you're upset about this, blame biology. Are you upset that men die younger than women? Not to be a smart-ass, but there are differences between the sexes. Frankly, I've got a huge problem with hypocrites. Do you have a problem that men are "sentenced" to male pattern baldness? Is this a stupid questioni? Yep.

As for abortion, yes, all I wanted was some form of acknowledgement that pro-lifers are not "haters." Me? As I said, I believe a woman should have the right to an abortion, but that's neither here nor there. The point is that you and Max apparently wish to vilify those with whom you disagree (yes, #2 is the one of the pro-lifers' arguments), but it is a legitimate argument (I disagree with it, but it's not crazy).

So why is Max angry? Sorry to be a jerk, but will Max respond to my arguments, or is he just angry that I dared to question him?

 
At 6:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

P.S.: Just out of curiosity, what in the world made you think it was good ol' MIFF? ;-)

And Max, I've got to question whether you are serious...You know who I am, Michael Hall, so do you wish to have an "open dialogue?"

 
At 6:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

P.S.: Free speech means having to listen to jerks' ideas, whether you think them brilliant or imbecilic. Sorry, Max.

Again, I'm probably being a jerk by pointing out Max's shortcomings, but if he wants to present any type of serious argument, he needs to be serious.

 
At 8:36 PM, Blogger AmyN said...

hi miffed,
the NSA told us it was you.
no, actually, we get so few anonymous commenters max looked in the server logs to see where you were coming from. So an IP address from virginia, and a referer URL that was a google search for Michael AND Fairfax and something or other I don't remember.

it's not that I deny biological facts; the truth is that I think absolutely equality of the sexes is a pipe dream precisely because there are biological facts that cannot as yet, and probably should not ever, for various reasons, be overcome. Hence my reference to artificial wombs. A lot of the early radical feminists actually argued that only artificial wombs would bring about the perfect liberation they craved, and I think they were probably right.

blaming biology is no solution, however. Humans are great manipulators of our own biologies. There are safe and effective ways to overcome the biology of reproduction. For example, Plan B. And birth control. And sex education. And yes, abortions. To withhold the means of emancipation from slavery is to sentence someone to slavery.

Somewhere out there are pro-lifers who also support birth control, sex education, Plan B, etc. Such people would also, I hope, support abortions to protect the life AND health of the mother. There are lots of people who think abortion is pretty icky but believe it should be legal.

But many, many, many of the most prominent pro-lifers out there, the people with the ear of the White House, don't support birth control either. They simply think people shouldn't have sex if they don't want to have a baby, and it's fine for them to think that, but not fine for them to inflict that opinion on me and mine. The struggle for women's reproductive rights is a struggle against women's slavery. A recognition that humans cannot achieve perfect freedom does not condemn us to wallow in unnecessary slavery.

As for Max, c'mon. You left several anonymous comments in a row, all of them attacking his wife. You called me, personally, "demagogic", a "partisan hitwoman", a "blowhard", a "left-wing nut", and "holier-than-thou". I didn't call YOU anything nasty. I did not say "Michael Fairfax, you are a troll who is engaging in exactly the kind of mindless name-calling you accuse me of. If you're so into reasonable discussion, why wouldn't you just read the blog, decide I wasn't worth the time, and then go off again. Why pause to tell me what a jerk I am?"

So you show up, call me nasty things and then, when my husband responds peevishly, you ask him whether he plans to engage with you constructively, and oh-so-politely point out his "shortcomings". Please. My post pissed you off, you ranted, Max ranted right back, and that's what sometimes happens on these here internets. It's a boring saturday, maybe we're all feeling out-of-sorts, and it's so much more fun to be angry and nasty to each other in cyberspace than it is to fold laundry or pay bills or watch the roof leaking into the bathroom. The technical term is "spoiling for a fight" and I mean you no insult by suggesting that's probably the mood you were in when you posted your comments. That's cool, we all do it sometimes. But whatever.

In fact, I know Max does agree that pregnancy is basically slavery (and as a sufferer of male pattern baldness himself, that THAT is not). But he's been busy most of the day, taking care of our kid, washing out my puke bucket, and practicing his violin for a recital he has tomorrow, so you can hardly expect him to issue thoughtful rebuttals to troll comments in his spare time.

 
At 2:08 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amy,

Re: your comments on abortion, don't look now, but you're actually making an argument -- as opposed to maintaining the fiction, no where acknowledged in your remarks, that those in the White House "hate" women. My reasons for being pro-choice appear to be different than yours, but really all I wanted was some type of serious argument from you. Don't people on the Left bristle when some far-right jerks say the Left "hates America?"

"As for Max, c'mon. You left several anonymous comments in a row, all of them attacking his wife." You also call me a troll. Am I a troll because I didn't state my name initially? I wasn't aware that it was unacceptable not to post your name, but nevertheless, when Max asked, I told him my name. Was it because I used harsh terms in questioning your "hate women" remarks? Half of your comment here is about abortion but no where do you actually address the thrust of my entire argument, namely that it is "demagogic," etc. to say that those in the White House "hate women" (not to mention all the "fuck" language you used). You basically duck my argument and then call me a troll...uh...okay.

When you come right down to it, as nearly as I can tell, your definition of a "troll" seems to be someone who disagrees with you and/or Max. "Why pause to tell me what a jerk I am?" Why did you bother to call those people woman-haters and will-to-power fucks? It's a nice double standard you and Max have going here: it's okay to spew mindless vitriol at people but trollish to point out that you're spewing mindless vitriol.

Anyway, please rest assured that I won't bother to post here again.

-M

 
At 11:34 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeesh. I loathe people who seem incapable of seeing a rant as a rant. They seem to be proliferating (as opposed to "pro-life-erating") on these here internets. I suppose one needs to post giant neon disclaimers whenever one is going to make a sweeping generalization in the service of one's anger.

Methinks you struck close to the mark with your comments, A! Why else would the commenter protest so very much?

In any case, yay rant, boo lousy pregnancy. I hope the puking stops soon.

Jude, who can't seem to make Blogger actually post when she logs in, so takes the quicker anonymous route because she's really tired of having to rewrite her posts or remember to copy it before hitting the submit button

 
At 11:18 PM, Blogger Fofie said...

Hello,
If I can add my 2 cents... I am French and your debate here still going on about abortion really surprise me... In France the debate occured 30 years ago (in the 70s) and since then, NObody except the EXTREME right would even think about going backwards on that law.
To me it's a philosophic question... Nobody WANTS to have sex with someone they don't love, with no protection, Nobody just enjoy having abortions... It is good that it's legal, because women who made mistakes -OR were victims of men's mistakes!!!- and are pregnant would always find a way to abort and it could be dangerous for their health (in the 60's: needles); Now, if they don't dare to do that, they would leave their kids, abandon them, or even worth, if they live in a "Pro-life" (what a CRAZY apellation!!!!) family, they could run away (because ashamed) or even kill themselves... it is soooo stupid... And I am also a mom, and I love babies, BUT I just believe people can be sad or lack of confidence or lack of maturity, or be abused, or be drunk and weak, and it doesn't mean they don't like life and they are not PRO-LIFE.. it just means they are HUMANS... if you like life, you should like humans, no? Or you just like robots maybe.. or gods? angels? I don't know... Who are you to judge anyway??? I am Pro life and Pro choice, pro freedom, pro happiness and Anti jerks-who-think-they-are-better-than-everyone!!!

 

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